Respectfully, Len Gilbert Kitchener ON Canada. By Wayne Colonna. The Nightmare on Oak Street: A hunt for 4L30E electrical problems How. and the maximum output torque is 664 ft. lbs. In fact, there are absolutely no cast-iron components, including the 10L80 stator support. With its 2017-2018 heralding, Ford has equipped 3 domestic models with the 10R80 transmission. They dealership gave Brian their opinion of what was making the noise. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. 10L80 vs 10L90 - CAMARO6 We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. Ford 10R80 Transmission Problems & Solutions - Next Gen Drivetrain The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. Like most GM automatic transmissions, the easiest way to tell them apart is by using the pan gasket. GM Transmission Dimensions - Pace Performance Application RWD & 4WD / AWD 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System - Transmission Digest Eighth 0.85 After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. or Best Offer . Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. All Rights Reserved. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). * WILL ALLOW USE . It began replacing the 4L60E transmission in many vehicles starting in the 2006 model year. $499.00. In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. Find Dealer. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A Stuck On. See the pictures below to help you tell if you have the right transmission. Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. Seems like the 6 speed auto would be better for the torque curve. The transmission lacks a direct-drive, but features two overdrive gears. Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. The 6L80 was, from the ground up, developed as an electric over hydraulic transmission with microprocessor control. The stator shaft support housing is fitted with a converter drive gear and idler gear. Thank you. There are too many differences between in communication protocols and renders the transmission nonfunctional. Second 2.99 Given the complexity of the TCM control strategy, the engineers made every effort to allow for partial operation of the unit under most failure conditions. document.write("- "+yr);
They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case. Its the best of both worlds. 1) Centerline of engine and transmission are the same on LS block and all trans that mount to it. Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. - Scope testing the Ford 10R80. Thank You.. Jef, Swapping a LS3 and 6 spd trans in , In place of a 454 and a turbo 400 3 spd, I currently have posi rear, Big yolk drive shaft, after the conversion, will i need to mess with the rear gear, or will I be ok for around town and occasional red light duel. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. 10L80 vs 10L90 Transmissions. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. The solenoids can be replaced separately, but only with the same type of solenoid. The subject is a rather common electrical fault that may occur on the PCS line pressure solenoid circuit, which results in max line pressure. The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. GM 10L80 Transmission: Specs & Updates - Transmission Repair Cost Guide Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF By combining a wide 7.39 overall gear ratio spread, with smaller steps between each gear, this GM 10-speed automatic transmission is able to keep the engine in its ideal power band during acceleration. So the service life is limited, and the warranty will only last 1-2 years. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. Electronic challenges exist when mixing and matching the 6L80 as they must be matched to their particular engine. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. Upon a test drive and a scan, code P0741 is noted and the percentage of TCC slip shows to be way out of range. While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. Ask Away! with Jeff Smith: Upgrading 6L80/6L90 Transmissions for Boost The complaint A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A Apply Time Out Of Range code. A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. I am currently planning on a high compression LS2 and a progressive nitrous kit but before another 4L80E goes in there is a 6,8, or 10 speed not an option? The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. The More You Know About The 10R80 The Better Off You Are! Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. TAP-2000 is a floor mounted shifter with Tap up Tap Down for GM 6/8L80/90E transmissions. The 6l80E transmission are the same through the entire line with changes made thru production in electronics. The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. PML GM 6L90, 6L90E Deep Transmission Pan - PML YourCovers Allows easy highway cruising, seamless downshifts, Transbrake and 2nd gear (2.34) leave options through multiple templates tuned independently of the engine management system! While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. Grade braking and clutch line pressure (for greater holding power) are additionally great features that are activated by Tow / Haul mode on the truck platforms. R.F. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. I believe AFM has been replaced with DFM Not for fact nojust was basing on the truck. Finished in a durable and corrosion-resistant clear anodize. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. Why the Sonnax forged covers and pistons solve the problem. Honda CR-V Hybrid Racer Is an 800-HP Test Bed. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? What is your recomendation for towing? I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. I believe this would allow a lower horsepower engine to perform similarly to a higher HP engine mated to a TH400. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. Do you know does the aftermarket have a fix? The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. The high pressure oil pump inside this transmission is incredibly complicated for no visible reason. Exceptional torque rating. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. 6L80/90E Swap FAQS | Chevy Trailblazer SS Forum LS Swap Automatic Transmission Guide - Chevy Hardcore But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. The button for Tap control is on the top of the shifter, making it easy to use in both left and right hand drive vehicles. The GM transmission is the 10L80, which is available in several models as well. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. 8 Options if Your Transmission Has Failed, Transmission Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), Best Remanufactured Transmission Companies, Hybrid Battery Replacement Cost and Prices, 10 Most Common Transmission Problems & How to Fix Them, How to Change Transmission Fluid Step by Step, What is a Transmission Flush? The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. 10L80 Performance Rebuild. I work on other peoples vehicles for a living. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. Developed with upgraded internal components, Chevrolet Performance's SuperMatic 6L80-E 6-speed automatic transmission offers an exceptional torque rating of 650 lb.-ft. - a 45 percent increase over regular production versions of the 6-speed automatic. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA
Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! TCRA Annual Seminar Coming to Charlotte this April! DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. These concerns may be caused by a sticking TCC Regulator Valve (Figure 5). PDF PIP5477C 10L90 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmission Exchange Program There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. 10L80 Transmission Specs General - 10-speed automatic with integral turbine clutch torque converter Application - RWD & 4WD / AWD RPO Code - MF6 Production Began - 2017 Case - 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Torque Converter - 260 mm with Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (10L80 ECCC) During the inspection of the transmission, Brain noticed that the idler gear could be easily lifted off of the bearing with just the use of his fingers (see figures 2 and 3). None of the above categories describe me. In fact, the only 2017 model year vehicle that still comes with this transmission is the Chevrolet SS. to 885 ft. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. That is just the beginning. Wait 2 seconds. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. Thats pretty much all thats to it. As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. Wait 1 second. Accelerate from a stop with light throttle (15%), ensuring that upshifts 1st through 8th occur at engine speeds between 1300-1600 rpm. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. August 8, 2022. I believe the last digits of the model number are the power rating capabilities of the transmission. 6L / 8L / 10L Transmission First introduced in 2005, the 6L80 transmission is a 6-speed automatic gearbox that is made by General Motors at their Willow Run transmission factory in Ypsilanti Michigan, and at their transmission plant in Toledo, Ohio. 6L80E Specs The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. Im thinking 3.73. This transmission is out of a Tur. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. A JMBX torque converter rebuilt with a Sonnax forged cover and piston has proven to be a successful recipe for a long-lasting unit, preventing this typical pattern failure. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. Foremost on the list is the Sonnax clutch apply kit. The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. If the power circuit to the transmission solenoids fails open, then all solenoids are failed electrically off. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. Its a longitudinal transmission (thats what the L in 6L80E stands for). Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control System Our top-of-the-line controller for 6R80 transmissions. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. Beyond that, its probably not a good idea even if it will allow lockup because that clutch surface area is limited. * EXCELLENT FOR VEHICLES THAT ARE EQUIPPED WITH ENGINES PRODUCING UP TO 650 FT LBS OF TORQUE. 4L60E Vs. 4L80E Transmission Differences And How To Swap It - Mechanic Base 3-Bolt Adapter Flange Yoke Kit. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. 8L90E Specs, Performance, and Identification | Drivetrain Resource Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. I & II NonStop-Transmission. $ 158.00 Select options. The case is a cast aluminum alloy. Team ATF builder Super Dave doing his magic on assembling the First 10L80 transmission ATFSpeed has had come thru the shop. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. How quickly time passes by. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". None of the clutch packs can engage, and there is no fail-safe operation. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. Power Pack Only, for Power Hub | 195756-7754. The overdrive ratio thats added is 0.75:1. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 Account. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. Note, all models will have a warmer. Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. Pre-Owned. Thats a great question. or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. Ninth 0.69 For both types A and B, a freeze-frame record will be stored in memory if the MIL illuminates. GM was still using their trustworthy 4L80E transmissions for heavier duty use, which was essentially a 1960's technologyTH400with added 1990's overdrive and electronic controls. This is a normal and desired behavior. The thicker JMBX piston cant conform to the cover (like it can in the 4L60-E TMBX), and at a commanded slip rate of approximately 50 RPMs in lockup, there is ultimately metal-to-metal contact that occurs between the front cover and the piston. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. Also fits '05-'06 Pontiac GTO (differential side). Legal/Privacy. As the installer was pumping fluid into the transmission from the right side of the vehicle, he was having a difficult time getting it full. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. Renew Subscription
The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. Complaints of erratic shifting, poor shift quality, missed shifts, and other shifting and TCC control complaints are becoming more common with these units. Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. Your car is quick! At part pedal, when acceleration is brisk, single-step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (a very short time in gear). Wait 3-5 minutes before driving. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). High Performance Transmission Rebuilds & Upgrades | Circle D All rights reserved. US Shift Stand-Alone Transmission Controllers The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles? The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. Our transmission shop specializes in rear wheel drive Ford & GM high performance transmissions. A more recent issue with these units is pump drive gear failure (Figure 7). The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. Weight 230+ lbs (weight varies depending on application) And you are correct the converters in these units are experiencing a high percentage of failure and are more problematic than normal.